Messianic prophecies, Michah 5:2, knowledge of haShem, third temple, Melech Mashiach,

Apr 24 2011

Tom (and please read this also everyone else following this discussion – you get a completely erronous picture  of this conversation if you don’t also read what I write),

Do you read my posts carefully?
Les doesn’t response to everything I write and continues to ask questions that I already have answered.

Les wrote: “Tell me when and who anointed your ribbi as Ha Mashiac Melek”

I wrote this: Tell me where in Tana’’kh you find this requirement.

18/4 I wrote:
Your question regarding anointed I have answered here: Link.

19/4 I wrote:

Regarding anointed: I answered that in my reply about 12 hours ago.

You wrote: ”You disengenuosly posted:”

Since when did you get a full knowledge of my heart? I have not acted disingenously at a single point in this conversation. Please provide your proofs for your allegations – not merely assumptions – until then your statement is leshon ha’ra.

In the last post Les again wrote: “He fulfilled none of these and failed to gather the exiles, rebuild the temple, or to spread the knowledge of HaShem throughout the world.”

Messianic prophecis and Michah 5:2

Despite that I have already answered the first two of these statements in a previous post.:
Tana’’ch prophecies about the dual goings forth of the Mashiakh in Mikhah 5:2 [Documentation]. There are prophecies in Tana’’kh which clearly shows that the first coming of the Mashiakh wouldn’t cause all of the Messianic prophecies to be fulfilled [Documentation:Link 1; and 2]. The Mashiakh was prophecied to be cut off in the first century [Documentation] and this invalidates the interpretation that all of the Messianic prophecies would be fulfilled by the first “going forth” of the Mashiakh.

According to Tana’’ch the 3rd temple is spiritual [Documentation]. The gathering of the exiles has to a large extent already taken place. Many that claim to be Jews have been kareit [cut off] from the brit with ha-Sheim, since they are rejecting to do their utmost to keep the mitzwot of Torah [Documentation] non-selectively – and the prophecy is only about those whom are included in Am Yisraeil. E.g. there is no excuse for persons living outside of Israel to not do their utmost of fulfilling the mitzwah of settling Israel. Rejection of doing ones utmost to fulfil the mitzwah of settling Israel, being aware that this is a mitzwah, leads according to Torah to kareit from Am Yisraeil, until a person makes t’shuvah  [Documentation]. This can also be learnt from the example of Eisau, Yishmaeil, et.al., whose relatives are not counted as belonging to Am Yisraeil [except those whom have converted]. I would move to Israel if I were allowed.

Addition: Spreading the knowledge of ha-Sheim is also done now through his restored teachings in Netzarim Reconstruction of Hebrew Matityahu, which describe how to relate to ha-Sheim. [Learn more here: Link]

Les is not replying to all of my statements, refusing to admit when he was wrong with his allegations and erronous statements and is repeating questions that I already have answered, which gives the impression to others that I don’t have answered the questions. He also comes with false charges like this: “Throwing out a couple of truths and claiming all you say is truth is like what the NT does.”, which I haven’t implied. Of course there is no such implication. Each point must be demonstrated which is also what I strive to do.

Those who only read Les responses gets a completely wrong picture of the conversation. That behaviour is not compatible with Torah and I will thus discontinue the discussion with him.

Jeff continues with his l’shon hara and I will not feed that. I have already refuted his l’shon hara in previous post/posts. I urge every reader of this forum to study www.netzarim.co.il and they will see that his allegations of my beliefs are false.

I follow the mitzwah of Torah:

מדבר-שקר תרחק

mi-d’var shqer tirkhaq; from a false-saying/matter distance yourself

If anyone wants to have an answer to his questions, then read the link that I provided demonstrating my claim. This makes the interpretation that the third temple is physical impossible and demonstrates that it is non-physical. This answers his question:

Messianic prophecis and third temple

“Eternal sacrifices by the Mâshiakh If the Har-Beit-ha-Sheim is spiritual [which is demonstrated in the article I referred to], its foundation, the Mâshiakh [demonstrated in the article I referred to], and its stones the nәphâshot of those doing their utmost to keep Torâh, then the eternal sacrifices by Mâshiakh, prophesied byY’khëzqeil (44.3; 45.16-17, 22; 46.2-18) can only be understood symbolically, in the spiritual sense.”

Tom wrote: “I know you brought in Isa 52:14, but lets face it, that interpretation/translation is a long reach.”

What do you base that on? Here are the bases of the translation: Link. If you think it is a long reach, then you should demonstrate which of the premises, which part of the translation that you are referring to and what in the analysis on this page that is wrong: Link (Put the cursor over the words of the translation in order to get the basis of the translation.). I have studied it and don’t regard it as a long reach.

Sincerly, Anders
Tom Moniz said:
Shalom,

Maybe I shouldn’t butt in, but I will :-) Anders, why won’t you answer Les’ simple straightforward question? You disengenuosly posted:

Les wrote: “then tell me why he did not perform any of the prophecies that Mashiac is to fulfill? I”

He fulfilled parts of Y’shayahu 53, prophecy in Danieil 9. He fulfilled the requirement of genealogies [see my previous post which you failed to answer], which isn’t possibly to fulfil anymore.

Whereas the question Les asked was: Tell me when and who anointed your ribbi as Ha Mashiac Melek, then tell me why he did not perform any of the prophecies that Mashiac is to fulfill?

Why did you snip away the first part of his question, which he has asked over and over again? Why won’t you answer this, at least with a “well it doesn’t matter either way” response? I know you brought in Isa 52:14, but lets face it, that interpretation/translation is a long reach.

Sincerely,
Tom

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Messianic prophecies, Malachi 3:1, Jewish Mashiach, haphtarah

Apr 16 2011

The Haphtarah selection begins “Then [lit. 'and']…” This should automatically prompt the question “When?”

To discover when, we back-peddle to 3.1:

Behold, I send My מלאך, 1 ופנה-דרך 2 before Me; and suddenly, shall come אל-היכלו 3 האדון, 4 whom you request. And the מלאך הברית 5 whom you desire ,behold, he has come!, says י--ה צבאות.6 But who מכלכל 8 the day of his coming? And who shall be the ones standing when he appears?

He shall make the Lәwiyim טהור 9 in order that they may present to י--ה a מנחה 10 in צדקה.11.

Then the מנחה 10 of Yәhudah and Yәrushalayim shall be fragrant to י--ה…

As we detailed in the 94.07 issue [of our newsletter, see the archives in the Netzarim Shoppe in our Mall], this Messianic Era has already commenced, heralded by the greatest astronomical phenomenon in recorded history. But, as in the days of Noakh, most take no notice until it is too late (NHM 24.37-38).

Most would agree that the Creator and Supreme Power in the universe is the same י--ה Whom Malakhi ha-Navi describes in 3.6: “I am י--ה. I do not change.”

Since י--ה does not change, how can the religion He endorses change from Judaism to a new religion? Isn’t it contradictory for Him to break His promises, trash His own Torah, change the laws (i.e., Torah to a contradictory “New Covenant”) and times — Shabat to sun-g*o*d-day,Pesakh to I*sh*t*a*r (modern “E*a*s*t*e*r”; and Pesakh Seider to “communion”), etc. Tan”kh defines these as attributes of the “anti-Christ” in Daniyeil 7.25.

Moreover, if your elohim broke his promises to Yisraeil, then he is unreliable, self-contradicting and capricious… and there’s no reason to expect that your elohim won’t break his promises to you… whether Christian or Muslim!

It’s impossible for י--ה, who doesn’t change, to start a supersessive, Displacement Theology, contradictory new religion! And, if it wasn’t י--ה who introduced Christianity, then who? And whom, then, are devotees to the new religion — and the even newer supersessive, Displacement Theology, contradictory religion of Islam — really following?

In 3.8, י--ה describes the withholding of מעשרות 12 as היקבע 13 Elohim.

The descriptions in NHM of non-Jews in the Batei-ha-Kәneset (synagogues, not gentile “churches”) clearly imply that these non-Jews were non-Jewish practicers of Judaism — geirim! (When was the last time you saw Christians populating the local Orthodox synagogue?) There was another popular designation for those who attended Batei-ha-Kәneset: יארי י--ה, 14, which subsumed both Jews and geirim.

Malakhi ha-Navi refers to the יארי י--ה in 3.16, ספר זכרון (Seipher Zikaron; Scroll for Remembering) was written before Him for the יארי י--ה and those who meditated upon His Name. This scroll, also called the ‘Scroll of Life’ (corrupted to ‘Book of Life’), was identified with the public genealogical records that registered every Yәhudi and geir for purposes of determining marriageability and the like. When the Romans destroyed these records, this scroll became associated with the registries of the local Batei-ha-Kәneset that since serve the same purpose. It is these (3.17) who shall be His on that day! Only in this context can 3.17-18 & 22 be appreciated. And only after all of this is 3.23-24 meaningful.

Rainbow Rule

Messiah’s Return
“Shabbat ha-Gadol,” Ency. Jud. 14.1217. Return to text
מלאך
(malakh; messenger, mythicized to “angel”). Return to text
ופנה דרך
(u-phinah-derekh; and he will cause-to-face the Way…; i.e. clear the way). Return to text
אל-היכלו
(el-heikhalo; to His palace / temple). Return to text
האדון
(ha-Adon; the Sir, Lord). Return to text
מלאך הברית
(malakh ha-bәrit; messenger of the pact / covenant). Return to text
י--ה צבאות
(ha-Sheim tzәva·ot; ha-Sheim of armies). Return to text
מכלכל
(mәkhalkeil; is enduring, economically supporting, maintaining). Return to text
טהור
(tahor; pure, purified). Cf. NHM note 5.8.1. Return to text
מנחה
(minkhah; presentation, present). By extension, the late morning (cf. Mәlakhim Beit 3.20) to mid-afternoon present of flour (pop. “meal offering”). Return to text
צדקה
(tzәdaqah; justness), popularly ‘righteousness’ and/or ‘charity.’ Cf. NHM note 1.19.1. Return to text
מעשרות
ma·asrot, pl. of מעשר (ma·aseir; tithe). Return to text
היקבע
(hayiqba; cheating), from קבע. Return to text
יארי י--ה
(Yirei ha-Sheim; reverers of ha-Sheim, those holding ha-Sheim in awe). Return to text
Learn more on www.netzarim.co.il . Essential information if you want to follow the Jewish Mashiach.

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Messianic Jew; Christian Jew?, Mashiach, Torah-observant Messianic Jews?

Apr 16 2011

For the legitimate use and historically accurate meaning of the term messianic, see a legitimate Judaic authority, e.g. Gershom Scholem, The Messianic Idea in Judaism. Historically, “messianic” implies a non-divine Mâ•shi′akh who must (Dәvâr•im′ 13.1-6) unalterably oppose Displacement Theology.

Lә-hav•dil′— According to Christian theology, Christ purportedly displaced the OT—what the Christian “Fathers” referred to as “the law of sin and death.” Lә-hav•dil′— The Mâ•shi′akh, by contrast, refines and perfects Tor•âh′. The Mâ•shi′akh is a mortal Jew who serves י--ה. Lә-hav•dil′—Christ is a man-g*o*d idol, the product of Roman gentile Hellenist idolaters.

Displacement Theology, having usurped the Bât•ei′-Din system of the legitimate Jewish community since 135 C.E., is as intrinsic to Christian Jews as to every other branch of Christianity. Without the Displacement Theology (displacing the Nәtzâr•im′ Pâ•qid′ in 135 C.E.) Christianity has no religious authority and no claim to legitimacy.

Accordingly, use of the term “messianic” by Christian Jews immersed in the Displacement Theology of Christianity is fraudulent and deceptive—displacement spin. Christians follow “Christ.” It’s a no-brainer that, whether Jews or gentiles, they are, therefore, “christian,” not “messianic.”

Being adherents to displacement theology, which is idolatry, Christian Jews are מְשֻׁמָּדִים (mәshu•mad•im′; excised apostates).

Imminent historians like Oxford’s James Parkes and Dead Sea Scroll 4Q MMT documented that Rib′i Yәho•shu′a and his original Nәtzâr•im′ lived and taught Tor•âh′ before the advent of Christianity with the birth of the Church in 135 C.E..

“Messianic Judaism”— Judaism has been defined for millennia by the Bât•ei′ Din system ordained by Mosh′ëh at Har Sin•ai′. The religion of displacement theology that Christian Jews practice, fraudulently hyped as ‘Messianic Judaism’—depends entirely for its claim of religious legitimacy upon denying and usurping the authority of this Bât•ei′ Din system. Therefore, this theology that purports to displace legitimate Judaism is neither legitimately Messianic nor legitimate Judaism of any kind.

Christian Jews— are, accordingly, defined by legitimate Bât•ei′ Din (legitimate Judaism) as: mәshu•mad•im′—apostates. No Christian Jew, whatever he or she calls himself or herself, is in good standing in the legitimate Jewish community; and no Christian “synagogue,” whatever they call it, is compatible with, or acceptable to, the legitimate Jewish community (which includes Nәtzâr•im′).

All reputable historians agree with the late Oxford historian, James Parkes (The Conflict of the Church and the Synagogue), that Rib′i Yәho•shu′a and his original Nәtzâr•im′ lived—and died—practicing and teaching Tor•âh′ in the first-century Pharisaic community.

Indeed, it is documented that Yәho•shu′a was ordained as a Pharisaic Rib′i in the first-century Pharisaic community. Both he and the Nәtzâr•im′ were first-century Pharisaic Jews practicing and teaching Tor•âh′. The first century Pharisaic community became today’s Orthodox Jewish community.

The Nәtzâr•im′ remained in the Pharisaic community while the arch-antithetical Christian church was established after 135 C.E.—worlds apart from the Nәtzâr•im′—in the gentile world of the Hellenist Roman pagans. From the birth of Christianity in the gentile, sun-worshipping Roman Hellenism of 135 C.E., the Nәtzâr•im′ have always regarded Christianity and the Church as our arch-anathema.

Conversely, the Church did everything to eradicate the Nәtzâr•im′—succeeding in 333 C.E. By the fourth century, the gentile Christian Church had syncretized its own, perverted, misojudaic image—Jesus Christ—that was diametrically antithetical to the historical Pharisee Rib′i,Yәho•shu′a. To say that the Nәtzâr•im′ and the Christian Church were always arch-enemies, and that Rib′i Yәho•shu′a and Jesus are arch-opposites, understates the conflict.

Unlike every Christian Jew, and his or her Christian deceptive pseudo-Judaism, the Nәtzâr•im′ are the only legitimate followers of Rib′i Yәho•shu′a, that is, the only followers of Rib′i Yәho•shu′a on the entire planet who operate within the same Bât•ei′ Din system (today’s Orthodox Judaism, successors to the Pharisees) as Rib′i Yәho•shu′a and the original Nәtzâr•im′.

Pâ•qid′ Yi•rәmәyâh′u, the 16th Pâ•qid′ of the Nәtzâr•im′ (the first 15 were documented by Eusebius and others), offers documentation that he is an Orthodox Jew in good standing in the Mo•rësh′ët Âv•ot′ Orthodox synagogue in Ra•a•nan′a, Israel. No Christian Jew on the planet can provide such documentation because no Christian Jew on the planet practices legitimate Judaism.

Therefore, the only solution for any Christian Jew is to abandon his or her Christian apostasy and make tәshuv•âh′ by subordinating to the Bât•ei′ Din system ordained by Mosh′ëh at Har Sin•ai′.

The Nәtzâr•im′ Beit Din is the only Beit Din in the entire legitimate Jewish community that accepts apprentice followers—Jew and gentile—of Rib′i Yәho•shu′a as the Mâ•shi′akh. (The Nәtzâr•im′ Beit Din provides the opportunity for gentiles to become Tor•âh′-observant non-Jewish geir•im′. We don’t convert gentiles to Jews.) [Quote]

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Messianic Jew, Jewish mother, convert Messianic Judaism, true Messianic Judaism

Apr 15 2011

In order to be a Jew your mother needs to be Jewish, or alternatively you need to convert to Judaism through a Pharisee-heritage beit din [Judaic court]. Furthermore if a Jew reject to keep Torah, he/she become kareit – cut off – from the b’rit pact with the Creator, and ends being a Jew, until he/she makes t’shuvah (includes starting to observe Torah non-selectively again to his/her utmost). This is the case according to Torah. [Documentation in note 1]

In order to be true Messianic, you need to be a follower of the Jewish Mashiakh [‘Messiah’]. It is prophesied in the Tana’’kh – the Hebrew Bible – that the followers of the Mashiakh will keep and teach Torah [note 2]. The Christian ‘messiah’ of the NT contradicts the specification of Jewish Mashiakh, since it teaches against Torah [Proof in note 3]. E.g. what Torah teaches of how to get a relationship with the Creator contradicts what NT teaches [note 4], and thus what the Mashiakh was prophesied to teach [2].

The historical Mashiakh was called Y’hoshua and live in the first century. He was a human just like the prophecies said he would be [5]. I.e. he was not divine and he was born to Yoseiph and Miriam. He fulfilled the Messianic prophecies that the Mashiakh was prophesied to fulfil during the first century; and there are prophecies which. His teachings were later redacted by the Hellenists. They created a counterfeit image called Jesus, that doesn’t resemble at all whom the historical person called Rabbi Y’hoshua was. They are diametrical opposites.

Thus, you can only truly start calling yourself a Messianic Jew, if you first convert through a Pharisee-heritage beit din and become a Jew. In order to do this you will have to leave anti-Torah beliefs behind you, e.g. belief in NT, which is heavily redacted [4] and contradicts Torah [3]; and by starting following the historical Mashiakh, instead of the anti-Torah counterfeit Christian ‘messiah’ – the anti-Mashiakh.

I wish you success in finding the way of the Creator – i.e. Torah – which and starting to apply it, which will lead you into an immensely meaningful relationship with the Creator.

Notes
1: http://www.judaismtorah.net/torah/judais…
2. http://www.followyeshua.com/messianic-pr…
3. http://www.jewishsalvation.com/tanach-sa…
4. http://www.hebrewmatthew.net/torah-vs-nt…
5. http://www.messianic-jew.com/messianic-j…
6. E.g. this prophecy: http://www.propheciesbible.com/messianic…

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Yehudim Meshichim,Messianic Jews or Netzarim/Nazarenes?

Mar 23 2011

I answered a person this about the identity of the Mashiach – Jewish Messiah:

Woo,

I belong to the Netzarim in Ra’anana in Israel (www.netzarim.co.il).

Here follows a reply to your question:

You wrote: “could you please help me a bit and tell me what exactly is your view of Jesus?”

First of all it is important to make one distinction.

[The numbers in brackets corresponds to notes at the end of this reply.]
Ribi Yehoshua (Aramaic: Yeshua) – the Mashiach [Messiah] [0] – of Nazareth was called a Ribi – a title similar to ‘Rabbi’ – even by his opponents. That title implies that Ribi Yehoshua had semikhah – rabbinic ordination. Only Pharisees had this rabbinic ordination. This implies that Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee. Read further documentation on this link [1].

He never lost this good standing and his followers the Netzarim were also in good standing in the Pharisaic Jewish community [2].

This logically implies that they cannot have taught doctrines that were the antithesis to Torah. Doing this and they would have lost their good standing.

I will come back later to the distinction.

In order to deduce what the Netzarim taught about divinity, etc, we thus need to study the Tana’’kh.

Let’s study the prophecy of Yeshayahu – ‘Isaiah’ – 7- 9:
“It’s essential to understand that this passage was originally interpreted in its historical setting. That understanding remained unchanged for nearly a millennium and Scripture informs us that ha-Sheim doesn’t change. The original meaning is the only true understanding.

The prophet Yeshayahu wrote this passage ca. BCE 720 relative to the king Âkhâz (7.1). The child Yeshayahu names in 9.5 prophesies a wonderful and righteous son of the disappointing and evil Akhaz: the king Khizqiyâh (see MelâkhimBeit [“2 Book of Kings]18.3-8; 20.2ff; Divrei ha-Yâmim Beit [2:nd chronicles] 31.1-4). Nor was Yeshayahu the only Nâvi -prophet – prophesying about the blasphemous rule of Âkhâz and the cleansing of Israel by his son, the king Khizqiyâh. the prophet Hosheia (see 1.1ff) and the prophet Mikhah (see 1.1ff) were proclaiming parallel prophecies.“ [3]

If you read the prophecy in Isaiah 7-9 in Hebrew and related verses of the Hebrew Bible you will see that king Hizkiah was a partial fulfilment of that prophecy and he was a human, and not divine, nor a ‘Saviour’. Thus, neither the Messiah would be divine, nor a ‘Saviour’. The historical Messiah called Rabbi Yeshua taught his followers to pray to the Creator, not to pray to Jesus. One is forbidden to pray to any human according to Torah; and one is forbidden to pray to or worship Jesus. [4]

Netzarim did not and don’t regard Ribi Yehoshua to be divine. He was a spiritual son of Elohim, just like all Torah-observant Jews and geirim – non-Jewish Torah-observant proselytes recognized by the Pharisee heritage Jewish community – are sons of Elohim.
The only Torah-compatible group claiming that Ribi Yehoshua is the Mashiach is the Netzarim (http://www.netzarim.co.il) in Ra’anana in Israel led by the Orthodox Jew Paqid Yirmeyahu Ben Dawid. Other groups are deceivers calling themselves Netzarim, but teaching doctrines incompatible with the Netzarim of the first century and incompatible with Torah.

The distinction must be made between the historical Ribi Yehoshua and the counterfeit image that were created by Christians – Jesus [5]. It is well documented and attested by Scholars that Christians redacted the “gospels” [6].

I hope this helps you and other reading this!

Notes
[Most of the following blogs are created by me and the facts of them are well documented.]:
0. Proof that Ribi Yehoshua was the Mashiach ben Yoseiph: http://www.torah-observant.com/mashiach/…

1. http://www.yeshuatorah.net/yeshua-and-to…

2. http://www.followyeshua.com/history-muse…

3. http://www.netzarim.co.il/ ; History Museum (left menu); Mashiakh (top menu); Documentation found in the page, including the section “Mâshiakh of Tana”kh Subverts Tana”kh to be the Mâshiakh?”;

4. http://www.followyeshua.com/yeshua-or-je…

5.Learn more about the distinction on this blog of mine:
http://www.yeshuavsjesus.com/yeshua-vs-j…

6. http://www.netzarim.co.il/ ; Glossaries; NT

Kind regards,
Anders Branderud

The person that I answered wrote this:
”

“I’m trying to understand how Messianic Jews and Netzarim Yisrael
- differ from other Jewish sects
- and differ from each other.

The whole thing is too confusing. I initially thought these 2 groups were the same, but perhaps not. So if you belong to one of these groups, could you please help me a bit and tell me what exactly is your view of Jesus? I know about the Messiah part, but is that all?

- What about being the Son of God?
- What about the Trinity (father, son, holy spirit)?
- Is Jesus divine or part-divine?”"

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Messianic Jew

Jan 19 2011

Hello!

Welcome to my blog!

I have made this first post sticky. Newer post will be published below this post.

I understand that people who come to this website have different backgrounds, so I would like to do some reading recommendations depending on your background. If you are a Muslim, I recommend you to study this blog of mine: About Muhammed; if you are a Jew, I recommend you to study this blog of mine: Logic and Torah; if you are an atheist or agnostic, I recommend you to read this article: Proof of an Intelligent Creator and His Will of mankind. If you are a theist of another view than the above, I recommend you to study this article: Which religion is the correct one. If you are a Christian I recommend you to study my blog called Follow Yeshua.

I plan to write more content to this blog later on!

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